Discussion:
Helmet Laws Cost Lives - National Post - Nov 24
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JFJones
2004-11-24 17:37:42 UTC
Permalink
Article today in the national Post at:
http://andrewcoyne.com/

One of the dutiful journalistic clichés of our times requires
reporters to note, in any story in which a cyclist is injured or
killed, whether or not he was wearing a helmet at the time, lest the
opportunity for a teaching moment be allowed to pass unrealized.
Because -- all together now -- helmets save lives.

To most people, this is obvious. The helmet is made of something hard,
harder than a skull. It stands to reason, right? Common sense, really.
And, after all, "studies show" that helmets prevent "up to" 85% of all
head injuries.

"Studies show" is another great journalistic cliché that, once
deployed, absolves the user of any obligation to offer anything
further in the way of serious argument. But before we can proceed from
the common-sense observation, that a helmeted head is less likely to
sustain damage from a blow than an unhelmeted one, to the conclusion
that every cyclist, adult or child, should be required by law to wear
a helmet at all times -- as in a private member's bill now before the
Ontario legislature -- we should first be prepared to answer a number
of inconvenient questions.

Such as: Does a cyclist who wears a helmet behave differently than a
cyclist who does not? Do those studies purporting to show that
helmet-wearers suffer fewer head injuries allow for the possibility
that those cautious enough to wear a helmet would be less likely to
get into an accident in the first place? Conversely, might the
imposition of helmets on cyclists who would not ordinarily choose to
wear them induce them to take more chances while riding, in the belief
they were now invulnerable? These are difficult questions to answer;
that does not avoid the need to take them into account.

What is easier to determine is: How great is the risk of death or
injury on a bicycle? It would certainly save lives if every pedestrian
wore a helmet, but most people would consider that a foolish
precaution for such a slight risk. In a previous column I noted that
the number of deaths from cycling is extremely small, relative to the
number of cyclists on the road: fewer than 80 per year, nationwide,
out of an estimated 10 million active cyclists. Some portion of these,
about two-thirds, are conventionally attributed to injuries to the
head, and some much smaller proportion of these might have been
prevented had the victim been wearing a helmet: the 85% figure,
remember, refers to all head injuries, including minor scrapes, not
the kind of massive traumas, usually with the help of a car or truck,
that lead to death. So we are talking about perhaps 20 preventable
deaths every year: one for every 500,000 cyclists.

Yes, yes, yes, say the critics: but what about the far greater number
of non-fatal head injuries? Very well. Let's look at the figures. For
2001-02, the Canadian Institute for Health Information's National
Trauma Registry records a total of 933 cases of cyclists with head
injuries severe enough to require hospitalization. Assuming no more
than one head injury per cyclist, that works out to fewer than one
cyclist in 10,000. To put it another way, you are likely to be
hospitalized with a head injury, on average, once in every 10,000
years of cycling. Again, that is without knowing how many of these
injuries would have been prevented had the victim been wearing a
helmet, or how many of them in fact were.

Fine, so the risk of even serious head injury is infinitesimal. But
isn't even one injury too many? And isn't it worth any amount of
expense to prevent such injuries? In a word, no, for the same reason
we do not drive around in cars made of titanium. That's especially
true when it comes to requiring helmet use by law, where the costs are
measured not only by the price of a helmet, but in the policing time
required to enforce it. By cost, moreover, I do not mean only the
monetary cost, but the alternative uses to which those scarce funds
might have been put. Consider, for example, how many lives might be
saved, and injuries avoided, at a fraction of the cost, by the simple
expedient of a line of paint, creating separate lanes for bicycles and
cars.

But that doesn't begin to count the real cost of helmet laws. The
experience of Western Australia, where helmets have been the law for
13 years, is instructive. While a greater number of cyclists wore
helmets, by far the most dramatic result was a catastrophic decline in
ridership: in excess of 30%. The cost and inconvenience meant fewer
people rode their bikes, and those that did took fewer, shorter trips.

What are the social costs of deterring cycling on this scale? Higher
rates of obesity, for starters, with the associated health effects. In
addition, some number of those trips that would previously have been
taken by bike are instead taken by car. That means more congestion,
more pollution, and more accidents -- some of these involving
collisions with cyclists. It is entirely possible that the law has
cost more lives than it has saved. The Perth-based journalist Chris
Gillham calls it "one of Australia's worst-ever public health
disasters."

But what about those studies? The ones showing helmets prevent 85% of
all head injuries? There aren't studies. There's one study: the figure
quoted is invariably from the same source. It's 15 years old, its
methodology is under attack, and it is hardly sufficient grounds for
turning millions of cyclists into outlaws for engaging in a perfectly
safe activity.
Luke
2004-11-25 01:20:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by JFJones
http://andrewcoyne.com/
<snip>
Post by JFJones
But that doesn't begin to count the real cost of helmet laws. The
experience of Western Australia, where helmets have been the law for
13 years, is instructive. While a greater number of cyclists wore
helmets, by far the most dramatic result was a catastrophic decline in
ridership: in excess of 30%. The cost and inconvenience meant fewer
people rode their bikes, and those that did took fewer, shorter trips.
The preceding paragraph is the most telling by far. No doubt as to
where AC stands on this issue. Good post JFJ.

Thanks
luke
DiscoDuck
2004-11-25 01:48:07 UTC
Permalink
Facts and reasoning will not be enough to overcome the ego and control
issue proponants have in regards to this issue.
For them it is not about saving lives or money. It's about making
others do, what thier will demands.
They cannot and will not ever admit they are wrong.
It's OK though. IT worked since I no longer ride my bike directly
because of this law. According to them, this puts me at even less
risk.
Post by JFJones
http://andrewcoyne.com/
One of the dutiful journalistic clichés ...
... It's 15 years old, its
Post by JFJones
methodology is under attack, and it is hardly sufficient grounds for
turning millions of cyclists into outlaws for engaging in a perfectly
safe activity.
Luke
2004-11-25 07:12:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by DiscoDuck
Facts and reasoning will not be enough to overcome the ego and control
issue proponants have in regards to this issue.
For them it is not about saving lives or money. It's about making
others do, what thier will demands.
They cannot and will not ever admit they are wrong.
It's OK though. IT worked since I no longer ride my bike directly
because of this law.
<snip>

Why DD? It's not law, merely a bill at this point (IIRC).

An odd thought: If this bill passes into law, Ontario cyclists' are
free to bare their breasts but not their heads!

Luke
Chris Phillipo
2004-11-25 18:12:00 UTC
Permalink
In article <251120040212088518%***@ca.inter.net>, ***@ca.inter.net
says...
Post by Luke
<snip>
Why DD? It's not law, merely a bill at this point (IIRC).
An odd thought: If this bill passes into law, Ontario cyclists' are
free to bare their breasts but not their heads!
Luke
And since supposedly the helmet law is going to stop all these people
cycling and cause obesity, there will be a lot more man boobs to be
subjected to!
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia
http://www.ramsays-online.com
DiscoDuck
2004-11-25 18:26:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Luke
Why DD? It's not law, merely a bill at this point (IIRC).
I'm in BC where it has been law for many (8?) years.
Luke
2004-11-26 10:43:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by DiscoDuck
Post by Luke
Why DD? It's not law, merely a bill at this point (IIRC).
I'm in BC where it has been law for many (8?) years.
Ahhh, another victim of altruistic legislators. How pathetic:
Authoritarianism masqerading as benevolence.

Is the law strictly enforced? And what's the penalty for riding sans
helmet?

Thanks
Luke
Steve Knight
2004-11-25 18:49:17 UTC
Permalink
the problem is a lot of accidents are never reported. I bet atleast 1/2 are not
bad enough for anyone to get involved.
I got hit by a car a coupe months ago and my helmet bounced my head off the
ground. I was doing a face plant. I was sure as hell glad I had it on. it's not
a big deal to wear one. all this ranting does not really do anything. do people
think they are superman when they have a helmet? I doubt it. should kids were
them yes? should adults? who knows. but we as a people are not too bright about
safty.
--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.
DiscoDuck
2004-11-26 02:37:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Knight
the problem is a lot of accidents are never reported. I bet atleast 1/2 are
not bad enough for anyone to get involved.
Not every accident would be reported, no. But using just a little
sense we cannot assume everyone who claims thier life was saved by a
helemt, was indeed saved. Otherwise wwe would ALL know DOZENS of
people who were killed prior to the law. You don't, I don't and your
friend's friend who claimed he was saved by a helmet, doesn't either.
Post by Steve Knight
I got hit by a car a coupe months ago and my helmet bounced my head off the
ground. I was doing a face plant. I was sure as hell glad I had it on. it's not
No offense but this argument has been proven wrong countless times.
People often think the helmet saved them when in fact it is just
likely they would have had a scrape or mild concussion. Of course
this is assuming the accident was true at all. Many proponants lie
about such things trying to "prove thier point."

I find it incredible the # of people who make this claim. Yet none of
them know ANYONE who has a head injury prior to the law.
Post by Steve Knight
a big deal to wear one. all this ranting does not really do anything.
Do you wear on in your car? If you do, then I can respect your
opinion. If not then I don't because I see it hypicritical. IF it is
no big deal on a bike, then it is no big deal in a car.
Post by Steve Knight
do people
think they are superman when they have a helmet? I doubt it. should kids were
them yes? should adults? who knows. but we as a people are not too bright
about safty.
You're right, we are not. Here we can agree. For example cycling is
perfectly safe, yet many claim it is only safe with a helmet therefore
make it law.
Steve Knight
2004-11-26 18:10:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by DiscoDuck
No offense but this argument has been proven wrong countless times.
People often think the helmet saved them when in fact it is just
likely they would have had a scrape or mild concussion. Of course
this is assuming the accident was true at all. Many proponants lie
about such things trying to "prove thier point."
ever have a mild or a severe concussion? I have twice it is no fun. I much rater
sacrifice a helmet. my nose would have hit before my head I am sure that would
have been real fun. no my helmet did not save my life but it sure saved me from
a lot of pain.
my helmeted head bounced quite hard off the pavement I would not have been a
happy camper if it was just my head hitting I know I have been there done that
and have the tee shirt. have you?
your point can be pretty silly. so you don't care if anyone gets hurt if they
don't have a helmet?
--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.
DiscoDuck
2004-11-27 02:35:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Knight
ever have a mild or a severe concussion? I have twice it is no fun. I much rater
sacrifice a helmet. my nose would have hit before my head I am sure that would
have been real fun. no my helmet did not save my life but it sure saved me from
a lot of pain.
my helmeted head bounced quite hard off the pavement I would not have been a
happy camper if it was just my head hitting I know I have been there done that
and have the tee shirt. have you?
your point can be pretty silly. so you don't care if anyone gets hurt if they
don't have a helmet?
Let get this straight! You want to mandate helmet use for bicycles to
minimize broken noses or bad scrapes?

To answer you question, I DO care about people getting hurt, yet. But
I care more about hurting an individual's freedom of choice. Do you?
If so, do you feel motorists should have to wear a helmet?
The key to freedom of choice is NOT understanding someone else's
choice. The key is accepting it regardless of whether you agree.

We've proved over and over here in this forum why the helmet law does
not work. The only possible explanation is ego. Proponents of the
law will not admit they are wrong and still want to force cyclist to
wear a helmet. Why do you want to force people through legislation?
Why not education? That way both sides can still enjoy this perfectly
safe activity.
DiscoDuck
2004-11-28 02:17:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Knight
ever have a mild or a severe concussion? I have twice it is no fun. I much rater
sacrifice a helmet.
Yes, I too have had concussions-twice as well. Once while cycling as
a matter of fact (yet I still belieive in freedom of choice), and
another time when I was a pitcher in a baseball game and got hit with
a line drive.

Interesting how this is another area where helmets are mandated-the
outfield in baseball.
Steve Knight
2004-11-28 21:34:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by DiscoDuck
Yes, I too have had concussions-twice as well. Once while cycling as
a matter of fact (yet I still belieive in freedom of choice), and
another time when I was a pitcher in a baseball game and got hit with
a line drive.
if people were wiser such laws would never exist. but we as a people are pretty
stupid overall. if not we would never have all the laws we do. look what it took
to get people to wear seatbelts. If people were smart no one would have had to
make them do so.
--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.
DiscoDuck
2004-11-29 07:49:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Knight
Post by DiscoDuck
Yes, I too have had concussions-twice as well. Once while cycling as
a matter of fact (yet I still belieive in freedom of choice), and
another time when I was a pitcher in a baseball game and got hit with
a line drive.
if people were wiser such laws would never exist. but we as a people are pretty
stupid overall. if not we would never have all the laws we do. look what it took
to get people to wear seatbelts. If people were smart no one would have had to
make them do so.
I agree with you that people are genrally stupid. That is why we
should PROMOTE cycling - not discourage it. Cycling it of itself is
less risky for the very fact you get SOME exercise.
But these laws are NOT meant to protect. IF they were, then we would
have helmet laws in cars-we don't. Seatbelts and airbags still do not
eliminate head injuries in car accidents.

As for the seatbelt law - I still disagree with it. I wear one
because I CHOOSE too, not because I have too. Same goes for Murder.
I have never murdered anyone; not because it is illegal, but because I
choose NOT to murder anyway. I've wanted to, but I can control my
choices and behaviour. IT seems some people cannot.

However the key difference between the seatbelt law, and the helmet
law is driving take no effort and require o physical exercise.
Cycling does, and as such we should do all we can to get people to
cycle. This law discourage people from cycling.
I am not alone in telling you I stopped cycling directly because of
this law. But according to proponants of the law, this puts me at even
LOWER risk.
Chris Phillipo
2004-11-29 15:39:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by DiscoDuck
I agree with you that people are genrally stupid. That is why we
should PROMOTE cycling - not discourage it. Cycling it of itself is
less risky for the very fact you get SOME exercise.
But these laws are NOT meant to protect. IF they were, then we would
have helmet laws in cars-we don't. Seatbelts and airbags still do not
eliminate head injuries in car accidents.
As for the seatbelt law - I still disagree with it. I wear one
because I CHOOSE too, not because I have too. Same goes for Murder.
I have never murdered anyone; not because it is illegal, but because I
choose NOT to murder anyway. I've wanted to, but I can control my
choices and behaviour. IT seems some people cannot.
However the key difference between the seatbelt law, and the helmet
law is driving take no effort and require o physical exercise.
Cycling does, and as such we should do all we can to get people to
cycle. This law discourage people from cycling.
I am not alone in telling you I stopped cycling directly because of
this law. But according to proponants of the law, this puts me at even
LOWER risk.
The reason you don't murder people is because humans have an
evolutionary trait built into them called empathy. Obviously not
everyone has it functioning correctly but it does keep the population
from cannibalizing itself. This instinct does not play into the wearing
of personal safety devices, because for the most part no one else is at
risk, or at least we don't perceive the risk to our family and friends
as being worthy of note. So no matter how long we went without a
seatbelt law, the majority of people would never choose to wear them. I
think with the sheer numbers of deaths on the road that have been
prevented by seatbelt usage it has been worth it. We as a people have
put the roads under the control of our government so we have to abide by
whatever rules are put forth, if they decide all bicycles will have to
have a full set of lights and indicators or a license plate then that is
what you will have to install for the privilege of using public roads,
what you do on private property should be your own business.

That said, if a bicycle helmet has actually been proven to have
prevented death at some point on the road I am not aware of it, I think
whatever money is saved to the heathcare system through injury
prevention with a helmet law will probably be canceled out by the cost
of enforcement, or it won't be enforced and there will be no effect at
all. So it is a waste of time but it is par for the course for our
gov't representatives that increasingly seem to be trying ways to
validate their existence with a minimal amount of effort.
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia
http://www.ramsays-online.com
Steve Knight
2004-11-29 18:17:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Phillipo
That said, if a bicycle helmet has actually been proven to have
prevented death at some point on the road I am not aware of it, I think
whatever money is saved to the heathcare system through injury
prevention with a helmet law will probably be canceled out by the cost
of enforcement, or it won't be enforced and there will be no effect at
all. So it is a waste of time but it is par for the course for our
gov't representatives that increasingly seem to be trying ways to
validate their existence with a minimal amount of effort.
how could it be proven since you can't do a repeat of an accident. I don't see
the law getting enforced around here anyway. so I guess the law is useless. but
it must make someone some money (G)
--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.
Chris Phillipo
2004-11-29 18:42:15 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@4ax.com>, ***@knight-
toolworks.com says...
Subject: Re: Helmet Laws Cost Lives - National Post - Nov 24
Newsgroups: bc.cycling
Post by Chris Phillipo
That said, if a bicycle helmet has actually been proven to have
prevented death at some point on the road I am not aware of it, I think
whatever money is saved to the heathcare system through injury
prevention with a helmet law will probably be canceled out by the cost
of enforcement, or it won't be enforced and there will be no effect at
all. So it is a waste of time but it is par for the course for our
gov't representatives that increasingly seem to be trying ways to
validate their existence with a minimal amount of effort.
how could it be proven since you can't do a repeat of an accident. I don't see
the law getting enforced around here anyway. so I guess the law is useless. but
it must make someone some money (G)
--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.
I believe I already said that earlier but that's my point :)
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia
http://www.ramsays-online.com
Eric®
2004-11-26 03:11:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Luke
<snip>
Why DD? It's not law, merely a bill at this point (IIRC).
Disco is posting from BC (note bc.cycling in your newsgroups pane) where
it has been law for quite some time.
Post by Luke
An odd thought: If this bill passes into law, Ontario cyclists' are
free to bare their breasts but not their heads!
Eric Schild
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