real accident defnition

Post by DiscoDuck
from http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=accident
An unexpected and undesirable event, especially one resulting in damage
or harm: car accidents on icy roads.
An unforeseen incident: A series of happy accidents led to his
promotion.
An instance of involuntary urination or defecation in one's clothing.
Lack of intention; chance: ran into an old friend by accident.
Logic. A circumstance or attribute that is not essential to the nature
of something.
if someone chooses to drive on an icy road, and
ends up in some sort of collision, then that is no accident since
she/he KNEW the risks involved by driving in such weather. Same with
wet roads.

If you drive with less care or neglect more can you really not expect
an undesirable event to be that unexpected.

You are responsible for your actions, you knew the conditions
and you chose to drive your vehicle.

DiscoDuck

2006-01-09 21:10:50 UTC

Post by Peter McNichol
If you drive with less care or neglect more can you really not expect
an undesirable event to be that unexpected.
You are responsible for your actions, you knew the conditions
and you chose to drive your vehicle.

Of course, but that is NOT what you were saying. You said there is NOT
a difference between intent, and no intent in the event of a collision.
Shall I post it again? OK, here it is:
"People talk about accidents. Accidents are no accident."

from http://groups.google.com/group/bc.cycling/msg/249b367abee95a80

Peter McNichol

2006-01-11 16:31:18 UTC

Of course, but that is not what you were saying. You said there is not
a difference between intent, and no intent in the event of a collision.
"People talk about accidents. Accidents are no accident."

What people say are accidents are not accidents.

The word accidents should not be used as it implies that nothing could
have been done to prevent the collision.

If one does not intend to hit someone, some people would say that is not
intentional. However your intent is not just your direct actions, but
all your actions that lead to the resulting collision.

A crime of a negligent act is still a crime.

DiscoDuck

2006-01-12 01:54:07 UTC

What people say are accidents are not accidents.

Say your sentence out loud. Can you hear yourself? Can you hear how
that sounds?

Let me replace the word accident above with it's proper definition.

What people say are "unexpected and undesirable events, especially one
resulting in damage or harm" is not "unexpected and undesirable
events, especially one resulting in damage or harm"

For some reason you have this erroneous definition, that accidents are
done on purpose. They aren't, hence the word "accident"

If you drive in winter, you know it increase your chance of an
accident. If you hit an icy patch, and crash into someone, it is STILL
an accident. Maybe you should have known you increase chances of an
accident, but it is still an accident.

Post by Peter McNichol
The word accidents should not be used as it implies that nothing could
have been done to prevent the collision.

That is not the definition of accident. Even if someone is negligent,
it is still and accident. The lane change example shows this

Post by Peter McNichol
If one does not intend to hit someone, some people would say that is not
intentional. However your intent is not just your direct actions, but
all your actions that lead to the resulting collision.

Intent is just that intent. Did you mean to do that. If not, then it
is an accident.
You have stated if even if you lack intent, you PURPOSLEY did it.
Asinine

Post by Peter McNichol
A crime of a negligent act is still a crime.

So? That doesn't mean it was done on purpose, as you have previously
claimed here:
http://groups.google.com/group/bc.cycling/msg/026d1de8c087c1eb

Even driving drunk, while GROSSLY NEGLIGENT and dumb as can be, is not
done with the intent of getting into an accident. You can be, and
SHOULD be charge with a negligent crime, but it is still an accident.
A dumb one, but still an accident.

Peter McNichol

2006-01-16 13:25:09 UTC

What people say are accidents are not accidents.

Say your sentence out loud. Can you hear yourself? Can you hear how
that sounds?
Let me replace the word accident above with it's proper definition.
What people say are "unexpected and undesirable events, especially one
resulting in damage or harm" is not "unexpected and undesirable
events, especially one resulting in damage or harm"
For some reason you have this erroneous definition, that accidents are
done on purpose. They aren't, hence the word "accident"
If you drive in winter, you know it increase your chance of an
accident. If you hit an icy patch, and crash into someone, it is STILL
an accident. Maybe you should have known you increase chances of an
accident, but it is still an accident.

Post by Peter McNichol
The word accidents should not be used as it implies that nothing could
have been done to prevent the collision.

That is not the definition of accident. Even if someone is negligent,
it is still and accident. The lane change example shows this

Intent is just that intent. Did you mean to do that. If not, then it
is an accident.
You have stated if even if you lack intent, you PURPOSLEY did it.
Asinine

Post by Peter McNichol
A crime of a negligent act is still a crime.

So? That doesn't mean it was done on purpose, as you have previously
http://groups.google.com/group/bc.cycling/msg/026d1de8c087c1eb
Even driving drunk, while GROSSLY NEGLIGENT and dumb as can be, is not
done with the intent of getting into an accident. You can be, and
SHOULD be charge with a negligent crime, but it is still an accident.
A dumb one, but still an accident.

You still fail to get the point that "accident" does not show fault.
Fault needs to be shown to learn how to prevent future incidents.

We do not use the N word anymore. We do not say stewardess anymore.
The definitions are still the same. They are just not acceptable anymore.

Accident is not an acceptable word for the enlightened advocate and professional.

DiscoDuck

2006-01-16 21:18:31 UTC

What people say are accidents are not accidents.

Say your sentence out loud. Can you hear yourself? Can you hear how
that sounds?
Let me replace the word accident above with it's proper definition.
What people say are "unexpected and undesirable events, especially one
resulting in damage or harm" is not "unexpected and undesirable
events, especially one resulting in damage or harm"
For some reason you have this erroneous definition, that accidents are
done on purpose. They aren't, hence the word "accident"
If you drive in winter, you know it increase your chance of an
accident. If you hit an icy patch, and crash into someone, it is STILL
an accident. Maybe you should have known you increase chances of an
accident, but it is still an accident.

Post by Peter McNichol
The word accidents should not be used as it implies that nothing could
have been done to prevent the collision.

That is not the definition of accident. Even if someone is negligent,
it is still and accident. The lane change example shows this

Intent is just that intent. Did you mean to do that. If not, then it
is an accident.
You have stated if even if you lack intent, you PURPOSLEY did it.
Asinine

Post by Peter McNichol
A crime of a negligent act is still a crime.

You still fail to get the point that "accident" does not show fault.
Fault needs to be shown to learn how to prevent future incidents.

I have repeatedly said accidents, does not mean someone shouldn't be
held accountable. You keep ignoring that. You are trying to change
the definition of accident from the real one.

Post by Peter McNichol
We do not use the N word anymore. We do not say stewardess anymore.
The definitions are still the same. They are just not acceptable anymore.

Perfectly acceptable. Everyone (but you) understands them.

Post by Peter McNichol
Accident is not an acceptable word for the enlightened advocate and professional.

Yes it is, and still is an acceptable word. It makes things perfectly
clear.
How many times have we all heard this?
"Oh my God, you were in an accident? Whose fault?"

Peter McNichol

2006-01-17 13:54:28 UTC

What people say are accidents are not accidents.

Say your sentence out loud. Can you hear yourself? Can you hear how
that sounds?
Let me replace the word accident above with it's proper definition.
What people say are "unexpected and undesirable events, especially one
resulting in damage or harm" is not "unexpected and undesirable
events, especially one resulting in damage or harm"
For some reason you have this erroneous definition, that accidents are
done on purpose. They aren't, hence the word "accident"
If you drive in winter, you know it increase your chance of an
accident. If you hit an icy patch, and crash into someone, it is STILL
an accident. Maybe you should have known you increase chances of an
accident, but it is still an accident.

Post by Peter McNichol
The word accidents should not be used as it implies that nothing could
have been done to prevent the collision.

That is not the definition of accident. Even if someone is negligent,
it is still and accident. The lane change example shows this

Intent is just that intent. Did you mean to do that. If not, then it
is an accident.
You have stated if even if you lack intent, you PURPOSLEY did it.
Asinine

Post by Peter McNichol
A crime of a negligent act is still a crime.

You still fail to get the point that "accident" does not show fault.
Fault needs to be shown to learn how to prevent future incidents.

I have repeatedly said accidents, does not mean someone shouldn't be
held accountable. You keep ignoring that. You are trying to change
the definition of accident from the real one.

Post by Peter McNichol
We do not use the N word anymore. We do not say stewardess anymore.
The definitions are still the same. They are just not acceptable anymore.

Perfectly acceptable. Everyone understands them.

NO they are NOT perfectly acceptable words. That is the point.

Post by Peter McNichol
Accident is not an acceptable word for the enlightened advocate and professional.

Yes it is, and still is an acceptable word. It makes things perfectly
clear.
How many times have we all heard this?
"Oh my God, you were in an accident? Whose fault?"

People do not learn. Fault is not enough. The reason the fault occurred must be found.

Accident is not an acceptable word for the enlightened advocate and professional.

DiscoDuck

2006-01-17 19:03:36 UTC

What people say are accidents are not accidents.

Say your sentence out loud. Can you hear yourself? Can you hear how
that sounds?
Let me replace the word accident above with it's proper definition.
What people say are "unexpected and undesirable events, especially one
resulting in damage or harm" is not "unexpected and undesirable
events, especially one resulting in damage or harm"
For some reason you have this erroneous definition, that accidents are
done on purpose. They aren't, hence the word "accident"
If you drive in winter, you know it increase your chance of an
accident. If you hit an icy patch, and crash into someone, it is STILL
an accident. Maybe you should have known you increase chances of an
accident, but it is still an accident.

Post by Peter McNichol
The word accidents should not be used as it implies that nothing could
have been done to prevent the collision.

That is not the definition of accident. Even if someone is negligent,
it is still and accident. The lane change example shows this

Intent is just that intent. Did you mean to do that. If not, then it
is an accident.
You have stated if even if you lack intent, you PURPOSLEY did it.
Asinine

Post by Peter McNichol
A crime of a negligent act is still a crime.

You still fail to get the point that "accident" does not show fault.
Fault needs to be shown to learn how to prevent future incidents.

I have repeatedly said accidents, does not mean someone shouldn't be
held accountable. You keep ignoring that. You are trying to change
the definition of accident from the real one.

Post by Peter McNichol
We do not use the N word anymore. We do not say stewardess anymore.
The definitions are still the same. They are just not acceptable anymore.

Perfectly acceptable. Everyone understands them.

NO they are NOT perfectly acceptable words. That is the point.

So far I have asked no less than 15 people the definition of accident.
Each of them has stated when someone does something unintentional.
When I show them your definition, reaction ranges from puzzlement, to
laughter.